Published in the “Luxury” academic journal.

This is another installment in our ‘Questions to Answer’ series, which is designed to help you think through how to elevate your brand.   In this particular case it is as much about some answers as it is about those critical questions. It feeds from an interview JP Kuehlwein (JPK) gave to Pablo D. Lopez Zadikoff (PLZ) writing for the academic journal ‘Luxury‘, yet the the conversation is relevant to all Lifestyle brands.

The interview covers much terrain when it comes to how brands make themselves meaningful beyond their materiality and utility, particularly in an ever-changing digital world and socio-cultural context. Below are key excerpts from the interview and HERE is a link to the full article. – Enjoy the read!

PLZ: We discussed the genesis of your research back in 2008, when in your P&G days you observed the group’s established brands struggling with recession, while smaller, more expensive brands in the same product category were growing. Is the success of the original Ueber Brands the product of a deliberate strategy or the outcome of natural selection?

JPK: Most Ueber-Brands are very deliberate in seeking to overcome what might look like “natural selection” or the typical “brand life cycle.” The large majority of brands (and even more of new product introductions by brands) don’t survive the first 4years.

Depending on the category and study, the numbers are usually between 70 and 95%. Ueber-Brands seek to be timeless, peer less, priceless. They seek to acquire meaning that makes them desirable beyond whatever material benefit they offer, what ever other brands are doing, whatever period of time we are in. Take the Porsche 911, Leica M, Hermes Birkin but also the can of original Red Bull, Patagonia fleece jacket or Moleskine notebook. They have succeeded to make themselves “eternal”— and that at a relative premium and through “thick and thin,” when it comes to the  macroeconomic environment.

PLZ: I take that their decision was deliberate, but their ultimate success was at least helped by circumstances outside their control, would you agree?

JPK: Have some of these brands and product icons emerged through lucky cultural or socio-economic circumstances? – Certainly!  Harley Davidson has synergized with the first
An Ueber to Take Your Brand to the Next Level popular wave of Make America Great Again sentiment in the Reagan years. Patagonia fits the “let’s wear our sustainability convictions on our sleeves” Zeitgeist. But even then, the brands had developed a (now even
more fitting) DNA and were ready when the right context (re-)emerged or grew into a sizable trend. Furthermore, I believe these brands have also “created their own luck”
by living a higher mission and creating a brand myth that has deep appeal and meaning to some people and was “ready to be discovered.”

PLZ: I have no doubt these brands have worked to be ready when lightning struck… Another big exogenous factor in their growth appears to be social media: Facebook, Instagram and others allow customers to make formerly private consumption (like Tom’s of Maine toothpaste) public. Do you think Tom’s of Maine, for instance, would be an Ueber-Brands without this exposure?

JPK: Social media certainly helps many Ueber-Brands, as it has become a major tool for humans to inspire, define and project their identity. Since Ueber-Brands play a key
role in that endeavor, social-media-fit/-friendliness is a key asset. That said, all brands seek to leverage social media and it is less the “seeing the brand being owned/used” that distinguishes the Ueber-Brand most. Rather, it is the existence of a group of influential disciples who talk about the brand, co-create with the brand, inspire the brand … without being paid for it. They truly experience the brand as an important part of themselves and the brand sees them as inspiration and muse first (before being a customer).

PLZ: Let me rephrase the question, do you think product categories like toothpaste could have achieved such a strong cultural meaning, without the visibility into private life that
social media allows?

JPK: I think you are right that the public visibility many choose to now give into previously obscured parts of their private lives make brands play a potentially meaning-giving role
they might previously rarely have. There certainly seems to be more social conversations that somehow involves a toothbrush or paste than I can remember pre-social media. And now that we are showing that brush, why not make it one that showcases our refined taste or believe in sustainable product choices!

PLZ: Millennials and Gen Zers certainly agree… Ueber-Brands in fact appear to align with their consumption patterns, but new generations of consumers will come soon enough. In particular, by the time your readers are able to successfully implement your brand elevation strategy. How can Ueber-Brands build in enough flexibility to pivot
when society changes?

JPK: If Ueber-Brands align with Millennials or Gen-Z then that is because they have depth and meaning, and young people are particularly in search of meaning. But these brands are not a generational phenomenon. I mentioned Harley Davidson above. One could argue that this brand is one favored by men who suffer a midlife crisis rather than
young guys. That said, the brand being a symbol of the “American Outlaw,” of “Freedom,” also works for younger, newer groups of people. Like women who seek to escape the cultural orthodoxy of being the “weaker sex.” The challenge of the Ueber-Brand is to stay true to itself while also staying relevant. The craftsmanship and creativity of Hermès famously pivoted to match a client wearing jeans in the 80s and today has launched “petit h,” celebrating la joie de l’atelier through up-cycling … but in the same spirit as it has done for generations.

PLZ: You consider that Ueber-Brands have “bigger reason[s] for being, beyond profit.” As a cold-blooded economist I find this a difficult proposition to believe in….

JPK: Profit is certainly important, but what we say is that these brands have a mission—in fact missionary zeal—that goes beyond selling and making a fast buck. That does not prevent them from being in business and making a profit. In fact, their margins (and multiples, if they are listed) tend to be richer than those of companies’ mass marketing propositions that need scale to be profitable.
The question is what comes first: the belief that you need to create meaning beyond the material to seduce customers and create an attractive margin, or that you need to
promote the hell out of a product so it becomes (the most) popular and generates substantial revenue. Ueber-Brands tend to go for the former strategy.
I only know of few companies, like Patagonia that MIGHT be said to exist not to maximize profits for their owners but rather to fund efforts to protect the earth… But they are the absolute exception versus the rule—and usually privately owned companies.

PLZ: After reading your book, I cannot stop wondering: Do Ueber-Brands exist to sell goods and services, or are these just an excuse, a vessel to sell the real product which is the Ueber-brand itself?

JPK: To a large extent, they exist to help us be ourselves. Nespresso does not only sell a good and convenient cup of coffee but also a feeling of being stylish, sophisticated, socially successful … depending on who you are and how you feel today. That is the value added
beyond the commodity value of the generic cup of coffee. Some brands succeed to detach themselves from one (or even any) specific product or service in lending identity and meaning. Armani came to define a lifestyle that could be translated to fashion, hotels, restaurants, flower shops … Lego has developed many ways in which it sells learning through creative play—far beyond its plastic bricks. Red Bull is a drink—or rather a magic potion—but also an event, news, the feeling of adrenaline pumping through your veins. If it was for sale, its value as a sports and entertainment company would likely compete with its value as a soft drink brand.

PLZ: And in this respect, can we assimilate the unpaid brand ambassadors or disciples you mentioned before to halo products, much like the General Motors Corvette bringing
people closer to a Chevrolet Malibu?

JPK: If the Malibu fits into the dream of the person desirous of living the Corvette life, then we could assimilate them. We call those ambassadors and disciples the “Ueber-Target” of a brand. They love the brand but also are muses to it. Most importantly they live the kind of life or beliefs that the broader strategic target of the brand desires to live. Think
of Coco and Chanel, the outdoor enthusiast “dirtbags” and Patagonia, or the Hells Angels and Harley Davidson. Consciously or sub-consciously many people desiring these brands do so (also) because they want to see themselves as visionary, confident, adventurous, or obnoxious as these Ueber-Targets—at least at the moment of consumption.

PLZ: Let me dig deeper here. [Aren’t virtual worlds like] the Metaverse the culmination of the transformation of brands into the real products? If I drive a Porsche, I am certainly having an experience and making a personality and wealth statement to the world, but at the same time I get a premium quality car that has a concrete function as a means of
transportation. We can discuss how much of the consumer purchase decision is linked to the product itself, but the product exists. Once in the Metaverse, my virtual 911
has no real function, it is just a statement of personality and wealth. This appears very fertile ground for Ueber-Brands….

JPK: People paying money for something as abstract or ephemeral as a manifestation in the metaverse, certainly indicates that meaning is being created. I dare to predict that brands will play roles—including those of projecting social status or satisfying hedonistic desires—to the extent that our social lives will be lived in the metaverse and experience in the virtual world can be emotionally. An Ueber to Take Your Brand to the Next Level
engaging. I guess that the Ueber-Brands of the metaverse are those that will be able to create “meaning beyond the virtual” just as they go beyond the material in the physical world.

PLZ: [… ] Are Ueber-Brands a “first world problem?” — You lived all around the globe, in societies with different Maslow levels of unsatisfied needs. Are Ueber-Brands marketing
strategies focused on the US (and to a lesser extent other developed nations) or are these feasible in societies where access to goods and services is more difficult and people cannot afford making a “personality statement” when e.g., brushing their teeth or baking bread.

JPK: Everyone is seeking for meaning, no matter the income, religion, age… There are some things that come first— like shelter—but meaning is pretty high up there in what helps us not only to thrive but survive. As Victor Frankl has so dramatically illustrated, for example. I understand that Maslow did not say that self-actualization is only relevant or reserved for those who have “worked off” all the lower levels on that pyramid. Everyone desires to be respected, loved… and everyone craves the feelings of pride, satisfaction. That explains the famous phenomenon of people who should safe their money spending a relative fortune on luxury items—many luxury and lifestyle brands have been revived and now thrive thanks to young Chinese “splurging” on the high-priced accessories they sell while living at their parent’s place and bringing their own lunch to work to save money. Just because you are not the boss or (yet) rich does not mean you do not have pride or the aspiration to get there.

PLZ: I completely agree but isn’t there a difference in reach in the Ueber-Brand ecosystem? In all societies there is certain level of conspicuous consumption, and I can see how people in developing economies can value a Louis Vuitton bag even more than the US/European counterparts. But the emergence of Ueber-brands across the consumption
spectrum, in particular related to small day-to-day consumption, is a luxury not all societies can afford.

JPK: Do people who are part of a more affluent environment have the luxury to decide between many options and make criteria like “this brand aligns with/projects my values” part of their purchase decisions more often? Probably. Particularly when we think of retailed, branded goods. In that sense, Ueber-Brands are likely to be over represented in the “first world” and stretch down and across far beyond the typical luxury categories of cars, jewelry, fashion, accessories, hospitality and so forth. And choosing between them one of those famous “first world problems.” That’s where brands like King Arthur Baking
Company, the Burning Man festival, or Ben & Jerry’s are Ueber-Brands, as well. They attract a post-modern, Western, meaning-seeking, first world kind of crowd by offering the “higher purpose” that other institutions like caste, church, or state are no longer experienced to give us.

PLZ: Let’s now briefly talk about your book [“Brand Elevation“], and its 6-step
process to elevate a brand to an Ueber-brand status. Can you provide a 5-line teaser summarizing the method?

JPK: I’ll provide a 12-word teaser: Brands can become meaningful beyond the material by Dreaming, Doing and Daring. How is that?

PLZ: Short and sweet. I’ll guess the readers will have to get the full scoop after reading the book! Let me help them with a preview. One of the steps of your brand elevation process
focuses on the company culture and the need to have all employees buy into the company ethos and act accordingly. Is the “working from home” wave an impediment to
generate Ueber-Brands?

JPK: To the extent that “seeing and feeling is believing,” yes. Not being able to physically immerse oneself in the culture and environment of a brand that “shines from the inside out” is somewhat of a handicap. But a big part of that “shine” is about the ideology and ideals of a company and those can be transmitted in ways other than physical presence, as well. But I do believe that humans themselves, when it comes to important meaningful things, will seek to be “present” so manifestations and gatherings will reemerge as important touchpoints that give us the feeling of “belonging.”

PLZ: Lastly, it seems that creating an Ueber-brand is a long term strategy, but is there an Ueber-Brand whose ascendance or decline surprised you? Meaning, a brand that achieved or lost its Ueber-Brand status overnight without notice?

JPK: The short answer is No. Dreams might be created over night but living them and having a brand end up standing for them—becoming icons—takes skill and time.

PLZ: But innovation sometimes happens overnight, good products show up and I guess that is fertile ground for Ueber-Brands….

JPK: If your success is founded on the functional benefits of your proposition and a “competitive moat” like IP protection or scale alone, then the demise will come and can be
sudden when the “better mouse trap” eventually appears. Think Zoom versus Skype versus I-forgot-what-came-before. And it seems that Zoom is already on its way out….
However, even brands that have meaning that far exceeds the pure functionality or performance of its products can not survive if they fail to also establish a business model
that generates profits. What surprises me is how many brand owners do not seem to recognize one or the other of these fundamental brand and business truths!

PLZ: I am sure they will stop doing so after reading the book.
Thanks JP, it’s been a pleasure

But wait, there is more…

For deeper insights into what drives the success of ‘Ueber-Brands’** and for many, in-depth case studies illustrating those drivers, read our book “Rethinking Prestige Branding – Secrets of the Ueberbrands.”

“Brand Elevation – Lessons in Ueber-Branding” is our practical guide to help you give a brand meaning and making it peerless and priceless. It features many application examples as well as case studies shared first-hand by marketing leaders from brands as diverse as Airbnb, Acqua Di Parma, Starbucks, TerraCycle or Youtube.

Take some inspiration from our collection of case studies that illustrate how to manifest a brand through its product and services

* ‘ueber’ = German for ‘above and beyond’ – just like the ambitions of brands we are talking about.

Want us to help you elevate your own brand? Write to us at info@ueberbrands.com